Historic Trial Transcripts
J. Bruce Ismay: Testimony
J. BRUCE ISMAY.
Mr. J. Bruce Ismay, being duly sworn by the chairman, testified as follows:
By Senator SMITH:
Q. Mr. Ismay, for the purpose of simplifying this hearing, I will ask you a few preliminary questions. First state your full name, please?
A. Joseph Bruce Ismay.
Q. And your place of residence?
A. Liverpool.
Q. And your age?
A. I shall be 50 on the 12th of December.
Q. And your occupation?
A. Ship owner.
Q. Are you an officer of the White Star Line?
A. I am.
Q. In what capacity?
A. Managing Director.
Q. As such officer, were you officially designated to make the trial trip of the Titanic?
A. No.
Q. Were you a voluntary passenger?
A. A voluntary passenger, yes.
Q. Where did you board the ship?
A. At Southampton.
Q. At what time?
A. I think it was 9.30 in the morning.
Q. Of what day?
A. The 10th of April.
Q. The port of destination was New York?
A. New York.
Q. Will you kindly tell the committee the circumstances surrounding your voyage, and, as succinctly as possible, beginning with your going aboard the vessel at Liverpool, your place on the ship on the voyage, together with any circumstances you feel would be helpful to us in this inquiry?
A. In the first place, I would like to express my sincere grief at this deplorable catastrophe.
I understand that you gentlemen have been appointed as a committee of the Senate to inquire into the circumstances. So far as we are concerned, we welcome it. We court the fullest inquiry. We have nothing to conceal; nothing to hide. The ship was built in Belfast. She was the latest thing in the art of shipbuilding; absolutely no money was spared in her construction. She was not built by contract. She was simply built on a commission.
She left Belfast, as far as I remember—I am not absolutely clear about these dates—I think it was on the 1st of April.
She underwent her trials, which were entirely satisfactory. She then proceeded to Southampton; arriving there on Wednesday.
Q. Will you describe the trials she went through?
A. I was not present.
She arrived at Southampton on Wednesday, the 3d, I think, and sailed on Wednesday, the 10th. She left Southampton at 12 o’clock.
She arrived in Cherbourg that evening, having run over at 68 revolutions.
We left Cherbourg and proceeded to Queenstown. We arrived there, I think, about midday on Thursday.
We ran from Cherbourg to Queenstown at 70 revolutions.
After embarking the mails and passengers, we proceeded at 70 revolutions. I am not absolutely clear what the first day’s run was, whether it was 464 miles or 484 miles.
The second day the number of revolutions was increased. I think the number of revolutions on the second day was about 72. I think we ran on the second day 519 miles.
The third day the revolutions were increased to 75, and I think we ran 546 or 549 miles.
The weather during this time was absolutely fine, with the exception, I think, of about 10 minutes’ fog one evening.
The accident took place on Sunday night. What the exact time was I do not know. I was in bed myself, asleep, when the accident happened.
The ship sank, I am told, at 2:20.
That, sir, I think is all I can tell you.
I understand it has been stated that the ship was going at full speed. The ship never had been at full speed. The full speed of the ship is 78 revolutions. She works up to 80. So far as I am aware, she never exceeded 75 revolutions. She had not all her boilers on. None of the single-ended boilers were on.
It was our intention, if we had fine weather on Monday afternoon or Tuesday, to drive the ship at full speed. That, owing to the unfortunate catastrophe, never eventuated.
Q. Will you describe what you did after the impact or collision?
A. I presume the impact awakened me. I lay in bed for a moment or two afterwards, not realizing, probably, what had happened. Eventually I got up and walked along the passageway and met one of the stewards, and said, “What has happened?” He said, “I do not know, sir.”
I then went back into my room, put my coat on, and went up on the bridge, where I found Capt. Smith. I asked him what had happened, and he said, “We have struck ice.” I said, “Do you think the ship is seriously damaged?” He said, “I am afraid she is.”
I then went down below, I think it was, where I met Mr. Bell, the chief engineer, who was in the main companionway. I asked if he thought the ship was seriously damaged, and he said he thought she was, but was quite satisfied the pumps would keep her afloat.
I think I went back onto the bridge. I heard the order given to get the boats out. I walked along to the starboard side of the ship, where I met one of the officers. I told him to get the boats out—
Q. What officer?
A. That I could not remember, sir.
I assisted, as best I could, getting the boats out and putting the women and children into the boats.
I stood upon that deck practically until I left the ship in the starboard collapsible boat, which is the last boat to leave the ship, so far as I know. More than that I do not know.
Q. Did the captain remain on the bridge?
A. That I could not tell you, sir.
Q. Did you leave him on the bridge?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. His first statement to you was that he felt she was seriously damaged?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And the next statement of the chief engineer was what?
A. To the same effect.
Q. To the same effect?
A. Yes.
Q. But that he hoped the pumps might keep her afloat?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you have any talk with any officer other than the captain or the chief engineer and the steward that you met?
A. Not that I remember.
Q. Did the officers seem to know the serious character of this collision?
A. That I could not tell, sir, because I had no conversation with them.
Q. Did any officer say to you that it evidently was not serious?
A. No, sir.
Q. All the officers with whom you talked expressed the same fear, saying that it was serious?
A. I did not speak to any of them, sir.
Q. Except the captain?
A. Except the captain and the chief engineer. I have already stated that I had spoken to them; but to no other officer that I remember.
Q. You went to the bridge immediately after you had returned to your room?
A. After I had put on my coat I went up to the bridge.
Q. And you found the captain there?
A. The captain was there.
Q. In what part of the ship were your quarters?
A. My quarters were on B deck, just aft of the main companionway.
Q. I wish you would describe just where that was.
A. The sun deck is the upper deck of all. Then we have what we call the A deck, which is the next deck, and then the B deck.
By Mr. UHLER:
Q. The second passenger deck?
A. We carry very few passengers on the A deck. I think we have a diagram here that will show you these decks. Here it is, and there is the room I was occupying (indicating on diagram).
By Senator SMITH:
Q. What is the number of that room?
A. B-52 is the room I had.
Q. You had the suite?
A. I had the suite; I was sleeping in that room (indicating on diagram), as a matter of fact.
Q. Do you know whether there were any passengers on that deck?
A. I have no idea, sir.
Q. You say that the trip was a voluntary trip on your part?
A. Absolutely.
Q. For the purpose of viewing this ship in action, or did you have some business in New York?
A. I had no business to bring me to New York at all. I simply came in the natural course of events, as one is apt to, in the case of a new ship, to see how she works, and with the idea of seeing how we could improve on her for the next ship which we are building.
Q. Were there any other executive officers of the company aboard?
A. None.
Q. Was the inspector or builder on board?
A. There was a representative of the builders on board.
Q. Who was he?
A. Mr. Thomas Andrews.
Q. In what capacity was he?
A. I do not quite follow you.
Q. What was the occasion of his coming to make this trial trip?
A. As a representative of the builders, to see that everything was working satisfactorily and also to see how he could improve the next ship.
Q. Was he a man of large experience?
A. Yes.
Q. Had he had part in the construction of this ship himself?
A. Yes.
Q. Was he among the survivors?
A. Unfortunately, no.
Q. How old a man was he?
A. It is difficult to judge a man’s age, as you know, but I should think he was perhaps 42 or 43 years of age. He may have been less. I really could not say.
Q. Then, you were the only executive officer aboard representing your company, aside from the ship’s customary complement of officers?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you have occasion to consult with the captain about the movement of the ship?
A. Never.
Q. Did he consult you about it?
A. Never. Perhaps I am wrong in saying that. I should like to say this: I do not know that it was quite a matter of consulting him about it, of his consulting me about it, but what we had arranged to do was that we would not attempt to arrive in New York at the lightship before 5 o’clock on Wednesday morning.
Q. That was the understanding?
A. Yes. But that was arranged before we left Queenstown.
Q. Was it supposed that you could reach New York at that time without putting the ship to its full running capacity?
A. Oh, yes, sir. There was nothing to be gained by arriving at New York any earlier than that.
Q. You spoke of the revolutions on the early part of the voyage.
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Those were increased as the distance was increased?
A. The Titanic being a new ship, we were gradually working her up. When you bring out a new ship you naturally do not start her running at full speed until you get everything working smoothly and satisfactorily down below.
Q. Did I understand you to say that she exceeded 70 revolutions?
A. Yes, sir; she was going 75 revolutions on Tuesday.
Q. On Tuesday?
A. No; I am wrong—on Saturday. I am mixed up as to the days.
Q. The day before the accident?
A. The day before the accident. That, of course, is nothing near her full speed.
Q. During the voyage, do you know, of your own knowledge, of your proximity to icebergs?
A. Did I know that we were near icebergs?
Q. Yes.
A. No, sir; I did not. I know ice had been reported.
Q. Ice had been reported?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you personally see any icebergs, or any large volume of ice?
A. No; not until after the accident.
Q. Not until after the wreck?
A. I had never seen an iceberg in my life before.
Q. You never saw one before.
A. No, sir.
Q. Had you ever been on this so-called northern route before?
A. We were on the southern route, sir.
Q. On this Newfoundland route?
A. We were on the long southern route; not on the northern route.
Q. You were not on the extreme northern route?
A. We were on the extreme southern route for the west-bound ships.
Q. What was the longitude and latitude of this ship? Do you know?
A. That I could not tell you; I am not a sailor.
Q. Were you cognizant of your proximity to icebergs at all on Saturday?
A. On Saturday? No, sir.
Q. Do you know anything about a wireless message from the Amerika to the Titanic—
A. No, sir.
Q. Saying that the Amerika had encountered ice in that latitude?
A. No, sir.
Q. Were you aware of the proximity of icebergs on Sunday?
A. On Sunday? No; I did not know on Sunday. I knew that we would be in the ice region that night sometime.
Q. That you would be or were?
A. That we would be in the ice region on Sunday night.
Q. Did you have any consultation with the captain regarding the matter?
A. Absolutely none.
Q. Or with any other officer of the ship?
A. With no officer at all, sir. It was absolutely out of my province. I am not a navigator. I was simply a passenger on board the ship.
Q. Do you know anything about the working of the wireless service on this ship?
A. In what way? We had wireless on the ship.
Q. Had you taken any unusual precaution to have a reserve power for this wireless?
A. I believe there was, but I have no knowledge of that myself.
Q. Do you know how long the wireless continued to operate after the blow or collision?
A. No, sir; I do not.
Q. Did you, at any time see the operator of the wireless?
A. I did not.
Q. Did you attempt to send any messages yourself?
A. I did not.
Q. Were you outside on the deck, or on any deck, when the order was given to lower the lifeboats?
A. I heard Capt. Smith give the order when I was on the bridge.
Q. You heard the captain give the order?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Will you tell us what he said.
A. It is very difficult for me to remember exactly what was said, sir.
Q. As nearly as you can.
A. I know I heard him give the order to lower the boats. I think that is all he said. I think he simply turned around and gave the order.
Q. Was there anything else said, as to how they should be manned or occupied?
A. No, sir; not that I heard. As soon as I heard him give the order to lower the boats, I left the bridge.
Q. You left the bridge?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you see any of the boats lowered?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. How many?
A. Certainly three.
Q. Will you tell us, if you can, how they were lowered?
A. They were swung out, people were put into the boats from the deck, and then they were simply lowered away down to the water.
Q. Were these lifeboats on the various decks?
A. They were all on one deck.
Q. On what deck?
A. On the sun deck; the deck above this (indicating on diagram). I do not think it is shown on this plan.
Q. That is, the second deck above yours?
A. On this deck here, on the big plan (indicating).
Q. On the sun deck?
A. Yes; on what we call the sun deck or the boat deck.
Q. They were on the boat deck, which would be the upper deck of all?
A. The upper deck of all, yes.
Q. Was there any order or supervision exercised by the officers of the ship in loading these lifeboats?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. I wish you would tell just what that was.
A. That I could not say. I could only speak from what I saw for myself.
Q. That is all I wish you to do.
A. The boats that were lowered where I was were in charge of the officer and were filled and lowered away.
Q. They first put men into the boats for the purpose of controlling them?
A. We put in some of the ship’s people.
Q. Some of the ship’s people?
A. Yes.
Q. How many?
A. That I could not say.
Q. About how many?
A. I could not say.
Q. About three or four?
A. The officer who was there will be able to give you that information, sir. My own statement would be simply guesswork. His statement would be reliable.
Q. In the boat in which you left the ship how many men were on board?
A. Four.
Q. Besides yourself?
A. I thought you meant the crew.
Q. I did mean the crew.
A. There were four of the crew.
Q. What position did these men occupy?
A. I do not know, sir.
Q. Were any of them officers?
A. No.
Q. Or seamen?
A. I believe one was a quartermaster.
Q. One was a quartermaster?
A. I believe so, but I do not know.
Q. You saw three of the boats lowered yourself?
A. Yes.
Q. And three of them loaded?
A. Yes.
Q. As they were loaded, was any order given as to how they should be loaded?
A. No.
Q. How did it happen that the women were first put aboard these lifeboats?
A. The natural order would be women and children first.
Q. Was that the order?
A. Oh, yes.
Q. That was followed?
A. As far as practicable.
Q. So far as you observed?
A. So far as I observed.
Q. And were all the women and children accommodated in these lifeboats?
A. I could not tell you, sir.
Q. How many passengers were in the lifeboat in which you left the ship?
A. I should think about 45.
Q. Forty-five?
A. That is my recollection.
Q. Was that its full capacity?
A. Practically.
Q. How about the other two boats?
A. The other three, I should think, were fairly loaded up.
Q. The three besides the one you were in?
A. Yes.
Q. They were fairly well filled?
A. Yes.
Q. Was there any struggle or jostling?
A. I saw none.
Q. Or any attempt by men to get into the boats?
A. I saw none.
Q. Were these women passengers designated as they went into the lifeboat?
A. No, sir.
Q. Those that were nearest the lifeboat were taken in?
A. We simply picked the women out and put them in the boat as fast as we could.
Q. You picked them from among the throng?
A. We took the first ones that were there and put them in the lifeboats. I was there myself and put a lot in.
Q. You helped put some of them in yourself?
A. I put a great many in.
Q. Were children shown the same consideration as the women?
A. Absolutely.
Q. Did you see any lifeboat without its complement of oarsmen?
A. I did not.
Q. Did you see the first lifeboat lowered?
A. That I could not answer, sir. I saw the first lifeboat lowered on the starboard side. What was going on on the port side I have no knowledge of.
Q. It has been intimated, Mr. Ismay, that the first lifeboat did not contain the necessary number of men to man it.
A. As to that I have no knowledge, sir.
Q. And that women were obliged to row the boat.
By Mr. HUGHES:
That is the second lifeboat, Senator.
By Senator SMITH:
Q. The second lifeboat; and that women were obliged to row that boat from 10:30 o’clock at night until 7:30 o’clock the next morning.
A. The accident did not take place until 11—
Q. Well, from after 11:30 o’clock at night until between 6 and 7 o’clock the next morning.
A. Of that I have no knowledge.
Q. Until the Carpathia overtook them. You have no knowledge of that?
A. Absolutely none, sir.
Q. So far as your observation went, would you say that was not so?
A. I would not say either yes or no; but I did not see it.
Q. When you first went on to the deck, you were only partially clothed?
A. That is all, sir.
Q. And, as I understand, you went as far as to encounter an officer or steward?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And then returned?
A. That is right.
Q. How long were you on the ship after the collision occurred?
A. That is a very difficult question to answer, sir. Practically until the time—almost until she sank.
Q. How long did it take to lower and load a lifeboat?
A. I could not answer that.
Q. Can you approximate it?
A. It is not possible for me to judge the time. I could not answer that.
Q. Were you on the Titanic an hour after the collision?
A. Oh, yes.
Q. How much longer?
A. I should think it was an hour and a quarter.
Q. An hour and a quarter?
A. I should think that was it; perhaps longer.
Q. Did you, during this time, see any of the passengers that you knew?
A. I really do not remember; I saw a great many passengers, but I do not think I paid much very attention to who they were. I do not remember recognizing any of them.
Q. Did you know Charles M. Hayes?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you know of the presence of other Americans and Canadians of prominence?
A. No, sir; I knew Mr. Hayes was on board the ship.
Q. You knew he was on the ship?
A. Yes; I have known him for some years.
Q. But you did not see him after the accident occurred?
A. I never saw him after the accident; no.
Q. And he is unaccounted for?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. He was not among the saved?
A. No, sir.
Q. What were the circumstances, Mr. Ismay, of your departure from the ship?
A. In what way?
Q. Did the last boat that you went on leave the ship from some point near where you were?
A. I was immediately opposite the lifeboat when she left.
Q. Immediately opposite?
A. Yes.
Q. What were the circumstances of your departure from the ship? I ask merely that—
A. The boat was there. There was a certain number of men in the boat, and the officer called out asking if there were any more women, and there was no response, and there were no passengers left on the deck.
Q. There were no passengers on the deck?
A. No, sir; and as the boat was in the act of being lowered away, I got into it.
Q. At that time the Titanic was sinking?
A. She was sinking.
Q. Where did this ship collide? Was it a side blow?
A. I have no knowledge, myself. I can only state what I have been told, that she hit the iceberg somewhere between the breakwater and the bridge.
Q. State that again.
A. Between the breakwater and the bridge.
Q. On the starboard side?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you see any of the men passengers on that ship with life preservers on?
A. Nearly all passengers had life preservers on.
Q. All that you saw?
A. All that I saw had life preservers on.
Q. All of them that you saw?
A. Yes; as far as I can remember.
Q. Naturally, you would remember that if you saw it? When you entered the lifeboat yourself, you say there were no passengers on that part of the ship?
A. None.
Q. Did you, at any time, see any struggle among the men to get into these boats?
A. No.
Q. Was there any attempt, as this boat was being lowered past the other decks, to have you take on more passengers?
A. None, sir. There were no passengers there to take on.
Q. Before you boarded the lifeboat, did you see any of the passengers jump into the sea?
A. I did not.
Q. After you had taken the lifeboat did you see any of the passengers or crew with life-saving apparatus on them in the sea?
A. No, sir.
Q. What course was taken by the lifeboat in which you were after leaving the ship?
A. We saw a light some distance off to which we attempted to pull and which we thought was a ship.
Q. Can you give the direction of it?
A. I could not give that.
Q. But you saw a light?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And you attempted to pull this boat toward it?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. How long were you in the open sea in this lifeboat?
A. I should think about four hours.
Q. Were there any other lifeboats in that vicinity?
A. Yes.
Q. How many?
A. That I could not answer. I know there was one, because we hailed her. She had a light, and we hailed her, but got no answer from her.
Q. You got no answer?
A. No, sir.
Q. Did you see any rafts in the open sea?
A. No, sir; none.
Q. Were there any other rafts on the Titanic that could have been utilized?
A. I believe not.
Q. Were all of the lifeboats of one type?
A. No; there were four that are called collapsible boats.
Q. What were the others?
A. Ordinary wooden boats.
Q. How many were there?
A. I think there were 20 altogether.
Q. Including both designs?
A. Yes. Sixteen wooden boats and four collapsible boats, I think. I am not absolutely certain.
Q. When you reached the Carpathia, was your lifeboat taken aboard the Carpathia?
A. That I do not know.
Q. Did you see any other lifeboats taken aboard the Carpathia?
A. I did not.
Q. What was the method of getting you aboard the Carpathia?
A. We simply walked up a Jacob’s ladder.
Q. What was the condition of the sea at that time?
A. There was a little ripple on it, nothing more.
Q. Do you know whether all the lifeboats that left the Titanic were accounted for?
A. I believe so. I do not know that of my own knowledge.
Q. I think it has been suggested that two of them were engulfed.
A. Of that I know nothing.
Q. You would know if that were true, would you not?
A. I have had no consultation with anybody since the accident with the exception of one officer.
Q. Who was that?
A. Mr. Lightoller. I have spoken to no member of the crew or anybody since in regard to the accident.
Q. What was Mr. Lightoller’s position?
A. He was the second officer of the Titanic.
Q. How many officers of the ship’s crew were saved?
A. I am told four.
Q. Can you give their names?
A. I can not.
Q. Or their occupation?
A. I could not. The only one I know is Mr. Lightoller, who was the second officer.
Q. I understand they are here.
A. I believe so; I do not know.
Q. Mr. Ismay, what can you say about the sinking and disappearance of the ship? Can you describe the manner in which she went down?
A. I did not see her go down.
Q. You did not see her go down?
A. No, sir.
Q. How far were you from the ship?
A. I do not know how far we were away. I was sitting with my back to the ship. I was rowing all the time I was in the boat. We were pulling away.
Q. You were rowing?
A. Yes; I did not wish to see her go down.
Q. You did not care to see her go down?
A. No. I am glad I did not.
Q. When you last saw her, were there indications that she had broken in two?
A. No, sir.
Q. When did you last see her?
A. I really could not say. It might have been 10 minutes after we left her. It is impossible for me to give any judgment of the time. I could not do it.
Q. Was there much apparent confusion on board when you saw her last?
A. I did not look to see, sir. My back was turned to her. I looked around once only, to see her red light—her green light, rather.
Q. You never saw the captain again after you left him on the bridge?
A. No, sir.
Q. Did you have any message from him?
A. Nothing.
Q. Do you know how many wireless operators there were on board the ship?
A. I do not; but I presume there were two. There is always one on watch.
Q. Do you know whether they survived?
A. I am told one of them did, but I do not know whether it is true or not. I really have not asked.
Q. Were any of this crew enlisted men in the English Navy?
A. I do not know, sir. The ship’s articles will show that.
Q. Can you tell us anything about the inspection, and the certificate that was made and issued before sailing?
A. The ship receives a Board of Trade passenger certificate; otherwise she would not be allowed to carry passengers.
Q. Do you know whether that was done?
A. You could not sail your ship without it; you could not get your clearance.
Q. Do you know whether this ship was equipped with its full complement of lifeboats?
A. If she had not been, she could not have sailed. She would not have received her passenger certificate; therefore she must have been fully equipped.
Q. Do you know whether these lifeboats were the lifeboats that were planned for the Titanic?
A. I do not quite understand what you mean, sir. I do not think lifeboats are ever built for the ship. Lifeboats are built to have a certain cubic capacity.
Q. I understand that; but I mean whether these lifeboats were completed for the ship coincident with the completion of the ship, or whether the lifeboats, or any of them, were borrowed from the other ships of the White Star Line?
A. They certainly would not be borrowed from any other ship.
Q. Do you recollect whether the lifeboat in which you left the ship was marked with the name Titanic on the boat or on the oars?
A. I have no idea. I presume oars would be marked. I do not know whether the boat was marked or not. She was a collapsible boat.
Q. Can you recollect whether that was so?
A. I did not look to see whether the oars were marked. It would be a natural precaution to take?
Q. Mr. Ismay, do you know about the boiler construction of the Titanic?
A. No, sir; I do not. May I suggest, gentlemen, if you wish any information in regard to the construction of the ship, in any manner, shape, or form, that I shall be only too pleased to arrange for one of the Harland & Wolff’s people to come here and give you all the information you require; the plans and everything.
Q. We are much obliged to you. There has been some suggestion by passengers who left the ship in lifeboats, that an explosion took place after this collision. Have you any knowledge on that point?
A. Absolutely none.
Q. Do you think you would have known about that if it had occurred?
A. Yes; I should. Do you mean to say before the ship went down?
Q. Yes.
A. Absolutely.
Q. Mr. Ismay, do you know anything about the action of the amidship turbine; the number of revolutions?
A. No.
By Mr. UHLER:
Q. The reciprocating engines, you say, were going at 75 or 72 revolutions at one time?
A. Yes.
Q. Have you any knowledge as to how many revolutions the amidship turbine was making?
A. No, sir. Those are all technical questions which can be answered by others, if you desire.
By Senator NEWLANDS:
Q. What speed would 75 revolutions indicate?
A. I should think about 21 knots.
Q. What is that in miles?
A. It is in the ratio of 11 to 13; about 26 miles, I think.
Q. Mr. Ismay, did you have anything to do with the selection of the men who accompanied you in the last boat?
A. No, sir.
Q. How were they designated?
A. I presume by the officer who was in charge of the boat.
Q. Who was that?
A. Mr. Wilde.
Q. And he was what officer?
A. Chief officer.
Q. Was that done by lot or by selection?
A. I think these men were allotted certain posts.
Q. Indiscriminately?
A. No; I fancy at the time they had what they called, I think, the boat’s crew list. That is all arranged beforehand.
By Senator SMITH:
Q. Can you describe those rafts?
A. There were none on board the ship.
Q. Did you see any rafts actually in service?
A. No, sir.
Q. Is it customary for the White Star Line to carry rafts?
A. I believe in the olden days we carried rafts.
Q. Recently that has not been done?
A. Not in the recent ships; no, sir.
Q. Why?
A. I presume because they are not considered suitable.
Q. Do you know what water capacity there was on that ship?
A. I do not, sir.
Q. I mean, when she was stove in, how many compartments could be flooded with safety?
A. I beg your pardon, sir. I misunderstood your question. The ship was especially constructed to float with two compartments full of water.
Q. She was constructed to float with two compartments full of water?
A. The ship was specially constructed so that she would float with any two compartments full of water. I think I am right in saying that there are very few ships—perhaps I had better not say that, but I will continue, now that I have begun it—I believe there are very few ships to-day of which the same can be said.
When we built the Titanic we had that especially in mind. If this ship had hit the iceberg stem on, in all human probability she would have been here to-day.
Q. If she had hit the iceberg head on, in all probability she would be here now?
A. I say in all human probability that ship would have been afloat to-day.
By Senator NEWLANDS:
Q. How did the ship strike the iceberg?
A. From information I have received, I think she struck the iceberg a glancing blow between the end of the forecastle and the captain’s bridge, just aft of the foremast, sir.
By Senator SMITH:
Q. I understood you to say a little while ago that you were rowing, with your back to the ship. If you were rowing and going away from the ship, you would naturally be facing the ship, would you not?
A. No; in these boats some row facing the bow of the boat and some facing the stern. I was seated with my back to the man who was steering, so that I was facing away from the ship.
Q. You have stated that the ship was specially constructed so that she could float with two compartments filled with water?
A. Yes.
Q. Is it your idea, then, that there were no two compartments left entire?
A. That I can not answer, sir. I am convinced that more than two compartments were filled. As I tried to explain to you last night, I think the ship’s bilge was ripped open.
By Senator NEWLANDS:
Q. The ship had 16 compartments?
A. I could not answer that, sir.
Q. Approximately?
A. Approximately. That information is absolutely at your disposal. Our shipbuilders will give it to you accurately.
Q. She was so built that if any two of these compartments should be filled with water she would still float?
A. Yes, sir; if any two of the largest compartments were filled with water she would still float.
By Senator SMITH:
Q. Mr. Ismay, what time did you dine on Sunday evening?
A. At 7:30.
Q. With whom?
A. With the doctor.
Q. Did the captain dine with you?
A. He did not, sir.
Q. When you went to the bridge after this collision, was there any ice on the decks?
A. I saw no ice at all, and no icebergs at all until daylight Monday morning.
Q. Do you know whether any people were injured or killed from ice that came to the decks?
A. I do not, sir. I heard ice had been found on the decks, but it is only hearsay.
Q. I think I asked you, but in case it appears that I have not, I will ask you again: Were all of the women and children saved?
A. I am afraid not, sir.
Q. What proportion were saved?
A. I have no idea. I have not asked. Since the accident I have made very few inquiries of any sort.
Q. Did any of the collapsible boats sink, to your knowledge, after leaving the ship?
A. No, sir.
By Senator NEWLANDS:
Q. What was the full equipment of lifeboats for a ship of this size?
A. I could not tell you that, sir. That is covered by the Board of Trade regulations. She may have exceeded the Board of Trade regulations, for all I know. I could not answer that question. Anyhow, she had sufficient boats to obtain her passenger certificate, and therefore she must have been fully boated, according to the requirements of the English Board of Trade, which I understand are accepted by this country. Is not that so, General?
By Mr. UHLER:
Yes.
By Senator SMITH:
Q. Mr. Ismay, did you in any manner attempt to influence or interfere with the wireless communication between the Carpathia and other stations?
A. No, sir. I think the captain of the Carpathia is here, and he will probably tell you that I was never out of my room from the time I got on board the Carpathia until the ship docked here last night. I never moved out of the room.
Q. How were you dressed? Were you completely dressed when you went into the lifeboat?
A. I had a suit of pajamas on, a pair of slippers, a suit of clothes, and an overcoat.
Q. How many men, officers and crew, were there on this boat?
A. There were no officers.
Q. I mean the officers of the ship.
A. How many officers were there on the ship?
Q. Yes, and how many in the crew?
A. I think there were seven officers on the ship.
Q. And how many in the crew?
A. I do not know the full number of the crew. There were seven officers—or nine officers; there are always three officers on watch.
Q. And how many men were in the lifeboat with you?
A. Oh, I could not tell. I suppose nine or ten.
Q. Do you know who they were?
A. I do not. Mr. (William) Carter, a passenger, was one. I do not know who the others were; third-class passengers, I think. In fact, all the people on the boat, as far as I could see, were third-class passengers.
Q. Did they all survive, and were they all taken aboard the Carpathia?
A. They all survived, yes.
Q. You have indicated your willingness to supply the committee with any data or information that may be necessary regarding the construction and equipment of this vessel?
A. Any information or any data the committee may wish is absolutely at their disposal.
Q. And you have indicated your willingness to meet our full committee?
A. At any time you wish, sir.
Q. And I suppose this includes the surviving officers?
A. Certainly, sir. Anybody that you wish is absolutely at your disposal.
Q. What are your own immediate plans?
A. I understand that depends on you.
Q. I thank you, in behalf of my associates and myself, for responding so readily this morning, and for your statements; and I am going to ask you to hold yourself subject to our wishes during the balance of the day.
For the Convenience of the Captain of the Carpathia I am going to call him at this time.
A. I am entirely at your disposal at any time, sir.
Q. The committee has decided to call the captain of the Carpathia as the next witness.
